Fruiting Behavior

[pogrmman]

Hi y’all,
So I’ve been wondering for a while now exactly what kind of growth pomegranates fruit on. It’s pretty obvious that the flowers form on the tips of new growth, but it’s also pretty clear to me that they don’t form from the tips of any new shoot. I’ve found lots of conflicting information — some say it’s on new growth, others say they fruit off of short-lived spurs, etc. The past few springs, I haven’t been able to really look closely to see exactly what kind of new growth produces pomegranates, so I thought I’d ask y’all.

Generally, I notice that fast, vigorous growth has long side shoots with thorns like this. I don’t think these fruit in their first year, but I’m not 100% sure on that.

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I’ve also noticed that less vigorous growth tends to make really short shoots that don’t extend much at all from year-to-year like this. I’ve seen some short shoots like this over 1/2" long, but not much bigger. They seem to form especially on buds on the underside of branches or other spots that are slightly shadier. These seem to match the spurs I’ve seen some places mention.

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Is there a difference in flowering behavior between these kinds of shoots in the upcoming growing season?

The only sort of consistent thing I’ve noticed is that vigorous, vertical water shoots don’t bloom and that new growth in the center of a dense canopy doesn’t bloom, both of which is probably to be expected.

I’d love to figure out a way to really manage pomegranates to minimize the amount of unfruitful wood in the canopy. Do y’all have any suggestions or observations?

[alanmercieca]

I read that spurs growing on older than 2 year growth can flower and fruit on some varieties and not on other varieties, a lot of the research I read makes me think that which variety does mater on how, when and where the fruit can form. As I have said before I have not had fruit yet. I also know that some varieties alternate from year to year, large crop and small crop. It's so complicated that I plan on keeping record of how each variety I have does individually.

[greenfig]

I noticed that my Parfianka and Desertnyi fruited on the same year growth for sure. Maybe the fruit was also on the older wood too but I didn’t pay attention. I know about the same year young growth because I trimmed some branches to make them shorter on the south side and they grew the most and fruited a lot.

[pogrmman]

Interestingly enough, I’ve already got flower buds!
All of the ones I have now seen to be growing out of spurs a couple years old on older wood in low vigor parts of the canopy.

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[alanmercieca]

Interestingly enough, I’ve already got flower buds!
All of the ones I have now seen to be growing out of spurs a couple years old on older wood in low vigor parts of the canopy.

84E834BD-6244-4675-A715-415CDF1BB136.jpeg

Which variety is that? Red Silk?

[pogrmman]

Interestingly enough, I’ve already got flower buds!
All of the ones I have now seen to be growing out of spurs a couple years old on older wood in low vigor parts of the canopy.

84E834BD-6244-4675-A715-415CDF1BB136.jpeg

Which variety is that? Red Silk?

It’s my big unknown pomegranate. I think it’s "Wonderful" because it was planted about 10 years ago by a landscaper and that’s the only non-ornamental pomegranate widely available around here. Pomegranates in the trade seem to be rife with mislabeling (I found my double-flowered, ornamental one labeled as "Wonderful"), so it’s hard to be sure. The fruit I do get from it are usually kind of nasty looking on the outside because we’re usually wet and humid when they’re blooming, but they taste just like store bought ones.

I’ve only had Red Silk for about a year. It spent most of its time in my care kind of neglected in a pot, but I put it in the ground a couple weeks ago and it looks to be happy and is budding out nicely.

[pomgranny]

Hello from eastern VA. (and hi Alan!)
I am very interested in this conversation, because the fruiting habits of my pomegranates are baffling to me, as well . . . even though I have two well-developed shrubs which fruit fairly consistently. I am still confused when it comes to deciding whether to leave a few suckers, (especially as the plants age). But, the suckers just grow vigorously - and 'suck the life from the rest of the plant' and never seem to develop fruiting wood . . . as I've been 'told' they would.

'Advice' is all over the place - a lot of it contradictory. One experienced pom person who lives in CA told me to be sure and leave the suckers - that the spike growth would turn into the fruit bearing branches. But, that has not been the case with my plants! So - I am with you, Alan, on this . . . that it varies from variety to variety.

This year - I pruned all 'giant suckers' out of one of my 'best' shrubs, which is a Granada, (I believe). Most were growing up through the middle of the shrub - and causing crowding, anyway. I left one or two on the 'exterior', to see if they would develop into 'real' wood.
I am speaking about the 'fast vigorous growth with the long side shoots and the large thorns' that you mentioned, pogrmman. And . . . I did not 'tip' any of the branches of last year's new growth, this time. I feel that it decreased my plants' fruit production. I got rid of any dead, or frost-bitten, or crossing/rubbing growth and opened up the center a little. And that was all.

On the other hand . . . I have an 'experimental' pomegranate grove - which is in its 3rd growing season. There are over 20 different varieties and so far - so good - only a couple have bitten the dust! These young poms need lots of 'beginning training'. If left to their own devices - they will develop into overly dense and crowded shrubs. (A few varieties seem to have more tree-like forms . . . which I am encouraging them to keep. I hope that I am making good decisions when out there, pruning . . . but it gets tough.

I want to train them to grow in a healthy, productive shape . . . but I also think that pruning encourages new growth! So it's a toss up.

I am with you, on the mislabeling, pogrmman.
It appears that once a gardener leaves the 'World of Wonderful' - it is open season on mislabeling. The only way to be somewhat sure of 'what you get' - is to wait for fruit! But, even that is not foolproof. I believe that I have a Wonderful and a Grenada growing in a front bed. They are quite established. My guess - 15 years old? And their fruit is quite similar. But, say . . . compare their fruit to a Salavatski's fruit - or a Golden Globe's . . . those would be easily distinguishable, I expect!

[alanmercieca]

Hello from eastern VA. (and hi Alan!)

I am with you, on the mislabeling, pogrmman.
It appears that once a gardener leaves the 'World of Wonderful' - it is open season on mislabeling. The only way to be somewhat sure of 'what you get' - is to wait for fruit! But, even that is not foolproof.

Hello. It sure does get confusing, One thing that can lead to confusion is the fact that in Europe even to this day, when seedlings pop up that are nearly identical to a known variety, they act like it's the known variety, not a seedling. 'Mollar De Elche' is a great example, that variety has been around for over 1,000 years, or has it, there are many many many different versions of 'Mollar De Elche', most likely many of them are seedlings of some original(s). Also I am very confused by seed hardness. The same exact plant can have seeds that range from very soft to soft, or soft to sort of soft, sort of soft to sort of hard, sort of hard to hard, and so on.

How much sun hits the fruit, how much of a fruit is hit by the sun, even a slight difference in a micro climate, in soil and in nutrients, can make the fruit seem different. Also like I have pointed out on here people have much different ideas how soft the seeds of a pomegranate fruit is. Also as time passes the average opinion of seed hardness changes, in Malta 1888 and earlier, as well as in the 1920s pomegranate seeds that were said to be very soft certainly did not melt in the mouth, because a lot of varieties had such hard seeds back then, even today with all the resources available, there seems to be no more than a few varieties that the seeds melt in the mouth.

[greenfig]

Last year, two of my trees flowered early in the season too but all those flowers were males and just fell off. I believe the female flowers that produce fruit appear later (with a handful of the male flowers). The early flowers without pollination wouldn't produce anything. The male flowers are fairly distinctive and it should be possible to tell which ones appear on your tree.

[pogrmman]

Last year, two of my trees flowered early in the season too but all those flowers were males and just fell off. I believe the female flowers that produce fruit appear later (with a handful of the male flowers). The early flowers without pollination wouldn't produce anything. The male flowers are fairly distinctive and it should be possible to tell which ones appear on your tree.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure these are males. Your experience seems consistent with what tends to happen here: the earliest wave of blooms sets nothing. I was kind of surprised to see what looked like flower buds that had formed last fall and overwintered, just like you’d see on most temperate fruit trees. I’d really only thought that pomegranates bloomed on new growth and wouldn’t overwinter buds like this.

I want to train them to grow in a healthy, productive shape . . . but I also think that pruning encourages new growth! So it's a toss up.

I am with you, on the mislabeling, pogrmman.
It appears that once a gardener leaves the 'World of Wonderful' - it is open season on mislabeling. The only way to be somewhat sure of 'what you get' - is to wait for fruit! But, even that is not foolproof.

You’re so right that the advice on pruning varies a ton! So many places say they need no pruning at all, but I’ve seen so many fairly ugly, completely unfruitful pomegranates with hundreds of little stems growing up from the middle that I really question that. They certainly need some pruning to establish an appropriate structure along with some pruning to maintain it, but beyond that, who knows what to do?

I know that for most plants, winter pruning encourages new growth and summer pruning helps to check growth. I haven’t been doing much summer pruning (other than sucker removal) because it’s kind of a pain to see what I’m doing.

Labeling is so confusing. I can see why they’re easy to get mixed up, but I’m also pretty sure people take cuttings of any fruiting pomegranate and call them 'Wonderful' because that’s all the average person has heard of and it’s one of a handful of varieties ever listed in growing guides for regular gardeners. People have been growing pomegranates in Central Texas for a long time: there were even some grown a mile from my house over a century ago. Yet the only locally-propagated ones you can find in most nurseries are ornamental "dwarf pomegranates" and plants labeled as 'Wonderful'. I’ve noticed differences in the fruiting pomegranates planted around here that probably can’t be chalked up to environment, so I’ve got to think there’s at least a few different plants floating around under that name.